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  • #15824

    MGM Official
    Keymaster

    Hello all!

    We am going to be finishing up the concept/prototype builds for our new ML lines early this summer. What I need from everyone on here is any recommended info on this. I’m talking barrel lengths, ignition systems, propellants, projectiles whether you use sabots, powerbelts, or smooth form, and everything else!

    We’re striving for the best possible combination of barrel, plug, powder, bullets, everything, in order to ensure the best possible results!

  • #15825

    Justin
    Participant

    I’m saying 24″ G2 barrel in 45 cal. Loads that shoot well are the Knight all copper sabots with Barnes made bullets. Hodgen 777 with Federal Fusion or CCI MZ primers are fine but will need to clean bore about every 3 shots to aid in loading. Blackborn 209 works too with CCI MAG and a tight fitting sabot. Could also use the MMP sabots with XTP bullets too but the Barnes give good groups and 100% weight retention. Cheers Justin

  • #15826

    Billy
    Participant

    I would want a 24-26″ barrel to shoot good with Power Belt bullets and Blackhorn 209. My .50 factory Encore barrel does very well with that combination.

  • #15827

    Marshal Sip
    Keymaster

    The consensus so far has been 24″ for the G2’s and 26″ for the Encores. We need to finalize that soon so we can start production on blanks as well as ramrods. I will do my best to keep everyone informed on here on which decisions we make.

    Luke at Arrowhead Sporting Goods has been a tremendous teammate so far. Together, we have came up with a plug that is small enough for the G2, and still has a carbide bushing with a .030″ flash hole, which has been proven to be the best size for BH209. The design is based off of his “Shorty” plug, and we will be using the same plug with both platforms. Also, we are intending to headspace the plugs with Fed 209A primers, simply on what is proven to perform with Luke’s prior testing as well as spec differences on primers. What are everyone’s thoughts on the BH209 and Fed 209A combo? We will test others, but this is the direction we’re thinking of starting with.

    Just a small list to show what projectiles we’ve started to gather:
    Hornady 200gr SST-ML
    Hornady 200gr XTP
    Barnes 195gr Expander
    -I’ve put in an inquire with Powerbelt Bullets and they will be getting back with me on which ones they want us to use. If they only say a couple we’ll purchase more and test anyways.

    We have 4 sabots to try as well. The tan that come with the 200gr Hornady, the Barnes combo, as well as Harvester Smooth and Crush Rib styles. Luckily we have no favoritism yet so we are completely open to everything.

    Being the lead on this project I’ve now realized how daunting this task of trying to cover all of the bases in order to guess what any one person could want. I’ve heard and read many opinions on this matter, but my theory is that if we supply a product as well as instruction on how to duplicate results tested then at least we will appeal to open-minded individuals who can appreciate the work we will be putting into this. I have more notes, but this is enough to get some replies for now!

  • #15836

    Justin
    Participant

    That will be a good start. When I did the BP tests and shot around 3,000 combos in 45 cal and 50 cal. When it came to BP209 the sabot fit was very important as much as ignition. I came across 2 sabot/bullet combos that fit was loose and powder burned surface of my white table I had crony on. One bullet even bounced off the face of the crony (which then made me place a 4×4 in front of it).
    So, unless you “slug” bore to know what lands are and bore are (T/C barrels varied) to weed out loose fits maybe since MGM makes the blanks you can let customer know exactly what they are.
    I have tried a number of primers. The Winchester rim of them are thicker and not flat so when set up with 0.001″ headspace had to snap barrel shut to get them to form and let barrel close. The Rem primers are the loosest and let most blow by happen. The Fed and CCI primers gave single digit spreads in velocity. Of course I was a little anal and used the Spin Jag and Pack Jack when loading. I also cleaned between every shot. Speaking of which the Butch’s Bore Shine cleaned the BP209 so well that the dry patch would squeak. Also, a note is that every time 1st round was fired at start of day and the “bore butter” products was in barrel for storage that shot was always higher in velocity. So, shoot a foul shot to get that out.Cheers

    • #15844

      Marshal Sip
      Keymaster

      Justin, thanks for all your help on this! I hope from your advice I don’t have to try 3,000 combos! I will have the advantage of air gauging every barrel so we will know to the .0001” that the diameters are.

      Speaking of jags, we will have a non-spin jag on the end of an included rod with each barrel. This jag will be the same length and thread as a Spinjag so seamless changeovers are a possibility. We may stock some Sponjags to save customers the hassle and shipping cost.

      I bought some Montana 209 cleaner, but we also have BBS so we’ll give both a chance. Again, we are testing just to give knowledge and expertise to make this easier and cheaper for everyone.

      Marty over at Haus of Arms is covering the G2 forend issue. These G2 barrels will be the standard bull configuration, but the standard bull forend won’t work due to the ramrod. Revolution has a sample barrel en route so they can mate up a perfect forend! I believe they’ll have all of their laminate colors as well as walnut.

      Luke over at ASG and I developed a more robust ML forend adapter that isn’t held on by a measly 6-48 screw. Instead it’s a .359”x60 size dovetail profile drifted in. This gives much more strength while only going .08” into the barrel. These will also be included on the Encore barrels, and will allow factory forends to fit perfectly.

  • #15866

    white eagle
    Participant

    what I would like to see is a Encore barrel @ 27-28″
    I would also like to shoot full bore cast slugs like REAL’S
    I cast my own Boolits
    as far as cal me I like at least 50 but would really like to see a 54 cal option
    ignition make it simple and sure
    I like loose powder

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  white eagle.
    • #15875

      Marshal Sip
      Keymaster

      White Eagle,
      We won’t be offering anything over 45 cal in ML barrel in 2018. Depending on the demand, we may tool up for 50’s next year if requests pile up, but I don’t see 54 cal ever happening.

  • #15984

    Marshal Sip
    Keymaster

    Here are the first two ramrod ends that we tapped for testing! Soon we be able to show the alteration to the barrels that allow more travel to enable easier extractor removal for cleaning!

    Attachments:
  • #16569

    Bruce
    Participant

    24 inch , 45 cal ,ss  will work for me. G2 .Having a full length ramrod being carried under  the barrel would be a necessity. Shotgun primers or 25 acp .Sign me up and if you see my wife don’t tell her I bought another barrel. Lmao.

    Bruce

  • #16571

    Bruce
    Participant

    I also have 500 mmp tan sabots. 45 cal that holds a .4 bullet. I can give you what ever you need to test. I also have the mmp sabots that are 45 cal but hold .357 bullets. Your welcome to try those as well.

    Bruce

  • #16671

    Marshal Sip
    Keymaster

    Bruce, I just send you a private message about the 357 sabots.

    I am also working on the article for the OGS magazine for anyone who is a member of the TCA and knows what that means! The article is all about this, which means it will be the first public announcement about these!

    We did get our plugs in from ASG last week! The carbide bushing with .o35″ flash hole is so awesome!

  • #16676

    Marshal Sip
    Keymaster

    Here’s a pic of our finished jags and BP’s. Notice the steel threads on the jag as well as the carbide in the BP. Barrels will be headspaced for a Fed 209A.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Marshal Sip.
  • #16683

    Marshal Sip
    Keymaster

    Sorry to blow this up folks, but making those jags was so much fun. I’ve never ran production size lots of brass before, and boy what it a treat compared to some of the SS we deal with. I never had to make an adjustment to the tooling on all 200 jags… We also weighed 10 of them after both ops were done and our biggest spread was .3 grains. No wonder solid projectiles are so accurate!

  • #16695

    Bruce
    Participant

    I replied back to you but don’t think the email went through. I’ll glady give you the sabots you need for your testing. Just let me know how many and I’ll send them. I’ve been ordering sabots from Del Ramsey who owns MMP sabots for many years.

    Bruce

    • #16700

      Marshal Sip
      Keymaster

      Bruce,

      I’d really like to try 20-30 of them. I tried checking out with some on their website, but it wasn’t working for some reason. I appreciate your willingness to help!

  • #16736

    Bruce
    Participant

    10/4. Do I mail hem to th mgm shop? Thanks.

    Bruce

  • #16740

    BRASF0311
    Participant

    My vote would go for a compact 20″ barrel with 209 ignition. I like the compacts for balance and handling in my dense woods.

    Big Bore Handgun Hunter Channel
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpn3FnTEBMlEhpfJ9AQhTog/featured

    Breathe
    Relax
    Aim
    Squeeze
    Follow Through

  • #16744

    mike luksza
    Participant

    Just wondering….why can you not make the ML for the earlier contenders (G1) versus just the G2? Going in that direction would allow for the much more sales, etc..

    Seeking TC Contenders
    nhmikel@yahoo.com

  • #16745

    Justin
    Participant

    Looking forward for the review in One Good Shot. Nice work like always.

     

  • #16776

    Vince
    Participant

    I currently have one of the .45 barrels from Luke over at ASG. Every part of it is awesome. Perfect length, weight, all that. I also have a factory 209×45 barrel for my original contender. I know those are supposed to be for G2’s but I made it fit. I really hope the MGM barrels will work on the early frames and not just the G2’s.  I would by an MGM barrel if it fit my easy open frame.

     

    Sounds like most of it has all been worked out. I know I’m a little late to the game as far as input goes. I will recommend looking at the Harvester sabots if you’re doing testing in warmer weather. Heat is the worst thing for a sabot regardless of brand but the harvesters tend to be a little softer and have more give, where the MMPs will blow.

  • #17023

    Bruce
    Participant

    You have many interested. Any updates? Thanks.

    Bruce

  • #17041

    Rylon
    Keymaster

    Thanks for the replies everyone!

    As Vince stated above, we did have some serious sensitivity to heat while we were out shooting last Friday. We tested a few bullets and powder charges, but we were very limited to what we could do before it was in the high 90’s and simply just too hot to shoot. We had to slow down and let the barrels cool for 10-15 minutes between shots to get 1/2 MOA accuracy. If we shot “rapidly” our groups opened up significantly, like to the 5-6″ range.

    We are looking like taking preorders at the end of June, which by then we will have an email blast sent out with a link to the website that has all the data as well as pictures for your review. We just have a few more small details to work out and then we’re golden.

    Luke Horak (ASG) drove up from Phoenix to shoot with us, and that was quite the treat. His guns shoot so well! He shot a 6-7″ group at 806 yards with 174 gr BH209 which pushed his 310 gr bullet 2840 fps! (That was out of his bolt action with his Gen II plug.) He loaded 180 grains and it was 2930 fps with that thing!

     

  • #17055

    Terrier
    Participant

    I shoot an original TC Encore 50 cal ML in the standard length.  I think it was a “Custom Shop” version because it came with a Salt & Pepper laminated stock set.  I got it before the Pro Hunter stuff they started making.  It’s the only TC barrel I have… all the rest are MGM.

    Not long after I got it, I got a different style breech plug that uses a different primer setup.  I got it from Arthur Brown Co., and it uses a 25 ACP brass with a small rifle primer.  Talk about keeping your receiver CLEAN!  No blowback whatsoever.  It appears they don’t make that particular breech plug anymore, but modified it to use a proprietary stainless “brass” to carry the rifle primer.  I’m glad I have the one I have, because in the heat of the hunt, and reloading for a second deer, I don’t want to have to worry about saving their expensive (but re-usable) primer carriers.  BTW, I found that magnum small rifle primers worked with a lot more consistency.  The biggest hassle with it is finding 25 ACP brass, but after looking for 2 years and coming up empty, I recently found a supply, and bought enough to last my lifetime just before I ran out of my original stash.

    The load I shoot is 2 pellets (100 gr) of Triple X Pyrodex, and a 200 gr 40 cal saboted Dead Center bullet by Precision Rifle.  PR tends to over-state their terminal performance and describe them in grandiose terms, but  I don’t usually get much of a blood trail with them.  I will say they shoot incredibly flat and accurately, and the deer is usually found piled up within 40 yards by just looking around.  I’ve attached a photo of a 10 pt I took in 2016 at 155 yards with it.

    If MGM starts producing a 45 Cal ML for Encore, I’ll be sorely tempted to get one.  I prefer a shortish barrel length, and would probably stick with the same load I shoot now, but of course with the smaller sabots.

    IF! … IF you are tempted to produce a breech plug that uses a pistol brass as a primer carrier, I would opt for the 32 ACP brass.  I was really close to having my original breech plug drilled out by a machinist friend to use a 32 ACP brass until I was finally able to find 25 ACP brass.  32’s are LOT easier to find, and not much bigger.  It looked like there would be plenty of metal left in the plug, and it’s a stronger brass.  This style of plug keeps the receiver soooooooo much cleaner than a 209 plug…  209’s are nasty!

     

  • #17061

    Luke Horak
    Participant

    I shoot an original TC Encore 50 cal ML in the standard length. I think it was a “Custom Shop” version because it came with a Salt & Pepper laminated stock set. I got it before the Pro Hunter stuff they started making. It’s the only TC barrel I have… all the rest are MGM.

    Not long after I got it, I got a different style breech plug that uses a different primer setup. I got it from Arthur Brown Co., and it uses a 25 ACP brass with a small rifle primer. Talk about keeping your receiver CLEAN! No blowback whatsoever. It appears they don’t make that particular breech plug anymore, but modified it to use a proprietary stainless “brass” to carry the rifle primer. I’m glad I have the one I have, because in the heat of the hunt, and reloading for a second deer, I don’t want to have to worry about saving their expensive (but re-usable) primer carriers. BTW, I found that magnum small rifle primers worked with a lot more consistency. The biggest hassle with it is finding 25 ACP brass, but after looking for 2 years and coming up empty, I recently found a supply, and bought enough to last my lifetime just before I ran out of my original stash.

    The load I shoot is 2 pellets (100 gr) of Triple X Pyrodex, and a 200 gr 40 cal saboted Dead Center bullet by Precision Rifle. PR tends to over-state their terminal performance and describe them in grandiose terms, but I don’t usually get much of a blood trail with them. I will say they shoot incredibly flat and accurately, and the deer is usually found piled up within 40 yards by just looking around. I’ve attached a photo of a 10 pt I took in 2016 at 155 yards with it.

    If MGM starts producing a 45 Cal ML for Encore, I’ll be sorely tempted to get one. I prefer a shortish barrel length, and would probably stick with the same load I shoot now, but of course with the smaller sabots.

    IF! … IF you are tempted to produce a breech plug that uses a pistol brass as a primer carrier, I would opt for the 32 ACP brass. I was really close to having my original breech plug drilled out by a machinist friend to use a 32 ACP brass until I was finally able to find 25 ACP brass. 32’s are LOT easier to find, and not much bigger. It looked like there would be plenty of metal left in the plug, and it’s a stronger brass. This style of plug keeps the receiver soooooooo much cleaner than a 209 plug… 209’s are nasty!

    A properly head spaced 209 plug will seal up just fine.   The issue is most of the makers out there do a generic one size fits all primers head space.   There’s about an .007″ range in primer length between brands, so you have to pick one and stick with it if you’re going to do it right.      The plug I designed for these MGM barrels has a well defined shelf for the nose of the primer to bottom out and seal against.   Federal 209 primers are recommend as they’re the most dimensionally and what the head space will be set for on the MGM ML.

     

     

    Luke - ASG
    www.arrowheadsporting.com

  • #17062

    Luke Horak
    Participant

    Luke Horak (ASG) drove up from Phoenix to shoot with us, and that was quite the treat. His guns shoot so well! He shot a 6-7″ group at 806 yards with 174 gr BH209 which pushed his 310 gr bullet 2840 fps! (That was out of his bolt action with his Gen II plug.) He loaded 180 grains and it was 2930 fps with that thing!

    Ton of fun shooting with you guys.  Can’t wait to do it again.

    For the record, that 180gr load was actually 2944 FPS!!!

    Either of those loads are definitely not recommended for an encore or contender platform.   Recoil was substantial even out of my 17# gun with Muscle Brake.

    Luke - ASG
    www.arrowheadsporting.com

  • #17069

    Bruce
    Participant

    I’m interested in a muscle Brake 🙂

    Bruce

  • #17075

    Luke Horak
    Participant

    I’m interested in a muscle Brake ?

    I’ve got the ports taped in this pic, but it’s basically a side discharge (tank style brake).

     

     

    Luke - ASG
    www.arrowheadsporting.com

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